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+--- Thread: Possible Story Ideas (/showthread.php?tid=367)
RE: Possible Story Ideas - Neoteny - 02-27-2010
(02-27-2010, 07:21 AM)cloudwolf Wrote: The 1999 thing is MxO canon, to simply disregard it would be irresponsible.
For better or for worse MxO expanded on The Trilogy. The Oligarchs, The Trinity Program, they're all there. If we really want to carry it on post-shutdown we don't get to just pick and choose established lore.
I didn't say it needed disregarding. The 1999 thing's just kind of stuck, but not a huge issue.
Now, other things, you can't ignore them, but you sure can write them out if you do it right. For example, the Trinity thing wasn't ever fleshed out all that much - it's easy to write out as a distraction (given enough detail and such - you can't just say "It was a distraction, lulz"). The Oligarchs - you can't deny their existence, but their specific origin was never known. They could be programs running autopilot on a ship for all anyone knows.
Granted, that's not what's been given so far, but what's been given so far hasn't been reliable information. It's all been perspective. And perspective is easily altered.
RE: Possible Story Ideas - cloudwolf - 02-27-2010
(02-27-2010, 10:09 AM)Noxton Wrote:(02-27-2010, 09:35 AM)cloudwolf Wrote:(02-27-2010, 08:08 AM)Noxton Wrote: You'll have to excuse me, having only played for a year and a half. I had no idea that someone actually wrote that it was always 1999. While I'm familiar with the story from start to finish, some of these minute (and ridiculous) details have slipped past me.
http://forums.station.sony.com/mxo/posts/list.m?topic_id=36300014531
As for not playing everything out Meta, you're right, I don't see any reason why the 1999 thing would have any meaningful affect on the storyline so it can just kind of be ignored and let people make up their own minds.
I just re-read what I originally wrote... My bad, Cloudwolf, it comes off as way harsh, but I didn't intend that at all.
No worries, it's not the way I took it anyway. I can't expect everyone to remember obscure Live Events postings from years ago =P
(02-27-2010, 05:22 PM)Neoteny Wrote:(02-27-2010, 07:21 AM)cloudwolf Wrote: The 1999 thing is MxO canon, to simply disregard it would be irresponsible.
For better or for worse MxO expanded on The Trilogy. The Oligarchs, The Trinity Program, they're all there. If we really want to carry it on post-shutdown we don't get to just pick and choose established lore.
Now, other things, you can't ignore them, but you sure can write them out if you do it right. For example, the Trinity thing wasn't ever fleshed out all that much - it's easy to write out as a distraction (given enough detail and such - you can't just say "It was a distraction, lulz").
It was fleshed out enough to make it hard to step around. It was confirmed as being written by The Oracle. It was confirmed as being directly related to Neo and his control over machines in the outside world (which sparked The Oligarch's interest in the first place). It was confirmed as being locked up in The Oligarch network and activated by emotion. It's purpose is to "help control the human population outside the simulation". It had direct knowledge of Neo and Trinity's exchanges noone else would. Ghost knew it was Trinity.
Most of these things invalidate it being Sati (wasn't written by the Oracle, Neo interfaced with machines before having ever meet Sati) and were designed to fill in a lot of holes in the story (Neo and Trinity's miracles, the device The Assassin witnessed being attached to Trinity's body etc) as well as bring some more weight to the character driven stories (Ghost, The Kid going after the Oligarchs in the real)
Don't let the fact you feel it invalidates too much of your perseption of Revelations change the fact it's the natural direction of that story. To do anything else with it would feel too artificial. Besides, if it really messed up the brother's vision they would've shot it down the same as they did humans not actually powering the machines.
RE: Possible Story Ideas - Barloke - 02-28-2010
I do think the whole Oligarth/Trinity issue should be resolved before we go on with any future projects, it's just an issue of tying loose ends. We have to face some facts here that any story we do, even a wrap up of an old event is not going to be considered "canon". That's ok and I can live with that, truth be told some of the "canon" stories were a little weak (I can recall one that involved something that looked like an electronic "seance" fo one).
The whole "1999" thing isnt't much of a big deal however I do like the explanation Noxton had for 1999 where Mankind was at the cusp of his knowledge (A Golden Age you could say) he was at the doorstep of discovering A.I. but thats where it stops. This kind of "Golden Age" could run for a very long time where there would have been small changes but not many. So it would be a period in time (one manufactured of course) where things pretty much stay the same with small differences, to me that pretty much fits.
RE: Possible Story Ideas - Noxton - 02-28-2010
Well, that's just how I interpreted it from the movies, but it made sense to me, so I stuck with it.
As for the canon of MxO, I would bet you a sizable sum of money if I had any that if the WBros made Matrix 4 (and if Matrix 4 picked up from the storyline we're on now, and didn't completely start somewhere else in the past/future), they wouldn't use MxO for much of anything.
Path of Neo showed that they could take things from the movies and modify them to fit in the general sphere of a video game world. MxO was the same thing. A large portion of the symbolism essentially vanished. Instead of the game operating on many levels like the movies, most of what happened was right at the surface. Most of what happened just simply was what it was.
Sometimes I think it would be cool to just start over from scratch when the Emu launches. Sometimes I think we should just leave MxO what it was when it was and pick up at a different time in the Matrix Universe's history/future.
In that way, we could truly once and for all make MxO ours.
The thing that constantly holds me back from that idea is that it leaves a wanting to see the old storyline finished out. That, and I simply love my characters and would hate to have to bury them. Still, I'd do it if it was clear that starting over was the right thing to do.
RE: Possible Story Ideas - Metalogic - 02-28-2010
I think the storyline written by Rare can be wrapped up while the EMU is being developed. We can release comics, or cinematics (Most likely will have to be flash movies) that will finish up the storyline and set the stage for the EMU Storyline.
RE: Possible Story Ideas - Neoteny - 03-01-2010
(02-27-2010, 09:53 PM)cloudwolf Wrote: It was fleshed out enough to make it hard to step around. It was confirmed as being written by The Oracle. It was confirmed as being directly related to Neo and his control over machines in the outside world (which sparked The Oligarch's interest in the first place). It was confirmed as being locked up in The Oligarch network and activated by emotion. It's purpose is to "help control the human population outside the simulation". It had direct knowledge of Neo and Trinity's exchanges noone else would. Ghost knew it was Trinity.
Most of these things invalidate it being Sati (wasn't written by the Oracle, Neo interfaced with machines before having ever meet Sati) and were designed to fill in a lot of holes in the story (Neo and Trinity's miracles, the device The Assassin witnessed being attached to Trinity's body etc) as well as bring some more weight to the character driven stories (Ghost, The Kid going after the Oligarchs in the real)
Don't let the fact you feel it invalidates too much of your perseption of Revelations change the fact it's the natural direction of that story. To do anything else with it would feel too artificial. Besides, if it really messed up the brother's vision they would've shot it down the same as they did humans not actually powering the machines.
Hm. I guess you make a good point. So that pretty much just cuts out the Sati thing and leaves in the Trinity thing.
The Trinity thing could be as simple as an error, with the program being released too soon, not having enough time to be washed of its previous identity. The conflict over this and the program's right to be (and right to be what or whom) could be interesting. I suppose if it went that way, I wouldn't mind it going on too long (or permanently) but it would end up fading into the background a bit by the end, when something new would be introduced, unless it were used as a part of the war.
Yeah, I guess it's pretty workable from that angle.
RE: Possible Story Ideas - cloudwolf - 03-02-2010
Think the idea would be to have her/it part of the reset to destroy the Oligarchs (or whatever cataclystic event takes your fancy) so yeah, it's not like she'd become a permanent character. Just an important one.
The light that burns half as long burns twice as brightly...
RE: Possible Story Ideas - Neoteny - 03-02-2010
My problem is that I still don't understand the Zion rationale for destroying the Oligarchs. They're delaying the war and buying them time. Researching the Oligarchs could obviously prove beneficial (as it was for Wright) as well.
If Zion were to gain control of the BIP, why, especially given Ghost's apparent infatuation with its Trinity form, would they use it?
If it goes to the Merv it also remains potentially unused to kill the Oligarchs, but rather to gain their power. The Machines could possibly use it to eliminate the oligarchs, but how much of that is blocked out in their system? The Cypherites seem like the best choice to use it to eliminate the Oligarchs, if anyone.
If it's to become a permanent character, then Zion's the route.
If the Merv is to gain even more power, then it's that route.
RE: Possible Story Ideas - cloudwolf - 03-02-2010
I'm pretty sure it has it's own mind as to what to do.
In the outlines it has Zion/EPN saving it from an Oligarch stronghold just because it's Trinity and stuff, not because they think they can use it for anything.
She decides herself to integrate with the source/destroy the oligarchs/save the Machines. The programs got free will now, it doesn't matter who holds it, it makes up it's own mind (especially if it was strong enough to lolpwn Wright).
RE: Possible Story Ideas - Neoteny - 03-02-2010
(03-02-2010, 03:43 AM)cloudwolf Wrote: I'm pretty sure it has it's own mind as to what to do.
In the outlines it has Zion/EPN saving it from an Oligarch stronghold just because it's Trinity and stuff, not because they think they can use it for anything.
She decides herself to integrate with the source/destroy the oligarchs/save the Machines. The programs got free will now, it doesn't matter who holds it, it makes up it's own mind (especially if it was strong enough to lolpwn Wright).
It does if the people holding it have the capacity to contain it (i.e. the Oligarchs, the Machines, possibly the Merovingian)
Granted Zion doesn't have the force necessary to contain it, but the emotional side of Trinity might not want to go ahead and suicide throw itself at the source just to block/kill the Oligarchs it barely knows.
I think you're giving the program a little too much credit. Sure it took out Wright, we don't know how, and we don't know why, and we also don't know if the program knows either of those things.
If it has the mind of Trinity in it, I'd assume it to be rather confused. And that confusion adds depth where even the most fruitful suicide makes it just another villain of the week type character. Certainly, it could make up its own mind to do such a thing (provided it isn't captured by any force prior to that happening), but there needs to be a rationale for it (which would encompass at least a subchapter or two, if not a full chapter of storyline development [alongside other things, of course])