Hardline Dreams - A Python Matrix Online Server Project

Oh definately, I agree. And I think that was definately the original plan, to have a lot of character development around Trinity. But with everyone wanting to kill off the Oligarchs fast to "move on" it becomes a little harder to do.

Is it possible to keep Trinity around but kill off The Oligarches? I ask because Trinity/BIP actually does kinda make sense, and since she was a character in the original movie, I'd like to give that a proper ending.

Well there were always two components to The Oligarch's defeat. Weakening them with the Trinity Killcode and finishing them off (well, all those connected and their control over the Machines at least) by having Trinity merge with the Source.

Have to say I can't think of a more fitting end (the holy martyr thing is kinda how the Trilogy ended and all) but if we really wanted to we could always just her survive the merger somehow.

I have to say I never really liked the idea of the BIP going into the source, activating magical golden hallways, and causing a restart. It's a cheap villain of the week ending, which we all know and hate.

Furthermore, as I said before, what's the motivation for it happening? Why does the BIP want to do this? It's hard to think up a rationale for a woman who's been dead for so long to go ahead and be dead again. The only real thought I have there is if she's seeking Neo's programming, but that almost concretely certifies that Neo is dead and that the program of the One is in the source, and I'm not sure I can commit to that idea - having the lingering doubt that Neo's body is out there and that something's going on with it is one of the few things keeping EPN alive.

Anyway, if we have the oligarchs and we're going to axe them off, let's at least do it in an intriguing manner, not in a gratuitous explosion that came from nowhere. Remember the EPN excursion to the No-Fly zone? Why not have the Machines use their operatives to tinker with the programming of some sentinels (so as to override any blocks) and send in an attack force or even just a blockade? Better yet, why not have humans go along with them? Make us see the more involved parts of the Oligarchs. Possibly have them gain control of the BIP and gain the bodies they seek - see where they go from there.

Such a war in the Real between the Machines and the Oligarchs presents further opportunity for Zion and EPN to build up, and following it, there could be a huge clash where Zion and EPN might have a chance against the Machines.

Meanwhile, the Architect gets hard to work on creating code to block the Oligarchs from entering the Matrix/having power within the Matrix. Once out of the Matrix/without power, they've lost their goal and may possibly retreat to their own corners to blow off steam. This way we can also have time to flesh out the stories of the Oligarchs rather than simply slamming them out of existence, and can make them into characters instead of gods.

Yes, in my opinion the oligarchs were a stupid idea, but in my opinion so was making the BIP Trinity, so if we're rolling with one, we may as well roll with the other.

(03-02-2010, 10:11 AM)Neoteny Wrote: [ -> ]I have to say I never really liked the idea of the BIP going into the source, activating magical golden hallways, and causing a restart. It's a cheap villain of the week ending, which we all know and hate.

Furthermore, as I said before, what's the motivation for it happening? Why does the BIP want to do this? It's hard to think up a rationale for a woman who's been dead for so long to go ahead and be dead again. The only real thought I have there is if she's seeking Neo's programming, but that almost concretely certifies that Neo is dead and that the program of the One is in the source, and I'm not sure I can commit to that idea - having the lingering doubt that Neo's body is out there and that something's going on with it is one of the few things keeping EPN alive.

Anyway, if we have the oligarchs and we're going to axe them off, let's at least do it in an intriguing manner, not in a gratuitous explosion that came from nowhere. Remember the EPN excursion to the No-Fly zone? Why not have the Machines use their operatives to tinker with the programming of some sentinels (so as to override any blocks) and send in an attack force or even just a blockade? Better yet, why not have humans go along with them? Make us see the more involved parts of the Oligarchs. Possibly have them gain control of the BIP and gain the bodies they seek - see where they go from there.

Such a war in the Real between the Machines and the Oligarchs presents further opportunity for Zion and EPN to build up, and following it, there could be a huge clash where Zion and EPN might have a chance against the Machines.

Meanwhile, the Architect gets hard to work on creating code to block the Oligarchs from entering the Matrix/having power within the Matrix. Once out of the Matrix/without power, they've lost their goal and may possibly retreat to their own corners to blow off steam. This way we can also have time to flesh out the stories of the Oligarchs rather than simply slamming them out of existence, and can make them into characters instead of gods.

Yes, in my opinion the oligarchs were a stupid idea, but in my opinion so was making the BIP Trinity, so if we're rolling with one, we may as well roll with the other.

Hmmm I actually like this. We would still need to come up with what The Merovingian was doing during this time.

As for the Cypherites, I'd want to hold of killing Cryptos until the EMU goes live, I'd want that to be the first bit of news that Cypherite operatives encounter.

As for the meantime, I guess they could be patrolling the towers, or re-try to get into New Zion like they tried to do back in Chapter 8.

(03-02-2010, 11:04 AM)Metalogic Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-02-2010, 10:11 AM)Neoteny Wrote: [ -> ]I have to say I never really liked the idea of the BIP going into the source, activating magical golden hallways, and causing a restart. It's a cheap villain of the week ending, which we all know and hate.

Furthermore, as I said before, what's the motivation for it happening? Why does the BIP want to do this? It's hard to think up a rationale for a woman who's been dead for so long to go ahead and be dead again. The only real thought I have there is if she's seeking Neo's programming, but that almost concretely certifies that Neo is dead and that the program of the One is in the source, and I'm not sure I can commit to that idea - having the lingering doubt that Neo's body is out there and that something's going on with it is one of the few things keeping EPN alive.

Anyway, if we have the oligarchs and we're going to axe them off, let's at least do it in an intriguing manner, not in a gratuitous explosion that came from nowhere. Remember the EPN excursion to the No-Fly zone? Why not have the Machines use their operatives to tinker with the programming of some sentinels (so as to override any blocks) and send in an attack force or even just a blockade? Better yet, why not have humans go along with them? Make us see the more involved parts of the Oligarchs. Possibly have them gain control of the BIP and gain the bodies they seek - see where they go from there.

Such a war in the Real between the Machines and the Oligarchs presents further opportunity for Zion and EPN to build up, and following it, there could be a huge clash where Zion and EPN might have a chance against the Machines.

Meanwhile, the Architect gets hard to work on creating code to block the Oligarchs from entering the Matrix/having power within the Matrix. Once out of the Matrix/without power, they've lost their goal and may possibly retreat to their own corners to blow off steam. This way we can also have time to flesh out the stories of the Oligarchs rather than simply slamming them out of existence, and can make them into characters instead of gods.

Yes, in my opinion the oligarchs were a stupid idea, but in my opinion so was making the BIP Trinity, so if we're rolling with one, we may as well roll with the other.

Hmmm I actually like this. We would still need to come up with what The Merovingian was doing during this time.

As for the Cypherites, I'd want to hold of killing Cryptos until the EMU goes live, I'd want that to be the first bit of news that Cypherite operatives encounter.

As for the meantime, I guess they could be patrolling the towers, or re-try to get into New Zion like they tried to do back in Chapter 8.

Developing anti-overrides as well? Perhaps they finish and that's why Cryptos is no longer of any use to them.

(03-02-2010, 01:30 PM)Neoteny Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-02-2010, 11:04 AM)Metalogic Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-02-2010, 10:11 AM)Neoteny Wrote: [ -> ]I have to say I never really liked the idea of the BIP going into the source, activating magical golden hallways, and causing a restart. It's a cheap villain of the week ending, which we all know and hate.

Furthermore, as I said before, what's the motivation for it happening? Why does the BIP want to do this? It's hard to think up a rationale for a woman who's been dead for so long to go ahead and be dead again. The only real thought I have there is if she's seeking Neo's programming, but that almost concretely certifies that Neo is dead and that the program of the One is in the source, and I'm not sure I can commit to that idea - having the lingering doubt that Neo's body is out there and that something's going on with it is one of the few things keeping EPN alive.

Anyway, if we have the oligarchs and we're going to axe them off, let's at least do it in an intriguing manner, not in a gratuitous explosion that came from nowhere. Remember the EPN excursion to the No-Fly zone? Why not have the Machines use their operatives to tinker with the programming of some sentinels (so as to override any blocks) and send in an attack force or even just a blockade? Better yet, why not have humans go along with them? Make us see the more involved parts of the Oligarchs. Possibly have them gain control of the BIP and gain the bodies they seek - see where they go from there.

Such a war in the Real between the Machines and the Oligarchs presents further opportunity for Zion and EPN to build up, and following it, there could be a huge clash where Zion and EPN might have a chance against the Machines.

Meanwhile, the Architect gets hard to work on creating code to block the Oligarchs from entering the Matrix/having power within the Matrix. Once out of the Matrix/without power, they've lost their goal and may possibly retreat to their own corners to blow off steam. This way we can also have time to flesh out the stories of the Oligarchs rather than simply slamming them out of existence, and can make them into characters instead of gods.

Yes, in my opinion the oligarchs were a stupid idea, but in my opinion so was making the BIP Trinity, so if we're rolling with one, we may as well roll with the other.

Hmmm I actually like this. We would still need to come up with what The Merovingian was doing during this time.

As for the Cypherites, I'd want to hold of killing Cryptos until the EMU goes live, I'd want that to be the first bit of news that Cypherite operatives encounter.

As for the meantime, I guess they could be patrolling the towers, or re-try to get into New Zion like they tried to do back in Chapter 8.

Developing anti-overrides as well? Perhaps they finish and that's why Cryptos is no longer of any use to them.

Hmm that'll work. However they'll have to do it in their own construct since MegaCity has become off limits.

(Hey, if we can't access the Matrix IRL, then IC we shouldn't access it.)

(03-02-2010, 02:47 PM)Metalogic Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-02-2010, 01:30 PM)Neoteny Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-02-2010, 11:04 AM)Metalogic Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-02-2010, 10:11 AM)Neoteny Wrote: [ -> ]I have to say I never really liked the idea of the BIP going into the source, activating magical golden hallways, and causing a restart. It's a cheap villain of the week ending, which we all know and hate.

Furthermore, as I said before, what's the motivation for it happening? Why does the BIP want to do this? It's hard to think up a rationale for a woman who's been dead for so long to go ahead and be dead again. The only real thought I have there is if she's seeking Neo's programming, but that almost concretely certifies that Neo is dead and that the program of the One is in the source, and I'm not sure I can commit to that idea - having the lingering doubt that Neo's body is out there and that something's going on with it is one of the few things keeping EPN alive.

Anyway, if we have the oligarchs and we're going to axe them off, let's at least do it in an intriguing manner, not in a gratuitous explosion that came from nowhere. Remember the EPN excursion to the No-Fly zone? Why not have the Machines use their operatives to tinker with the programming of some sentinels (so as to override any blocks) and send in an attack force or even just a blockade? Better yet, why not have humans go along with them? Make us see the more involved parts of the Oligarchs. Possibly have them gain control of the BIP and gain the bodies they seek - see where they go from there.

Such a war in the Real between the Machines and the Oligarchs presents further opportunity for Zion and EPN to build up, and following it, there could be a huge clash where Zion and EPN might have a chance against the Machines.

Meanwhile, the Architect gets hard to work on creating code to block the Oligarchs from entering the Matrix/having power within the Matrix. Once out of the Matrix/without power, they've lost their goal and may possibly retreat to their own corners to blow off steam. This way we can also have time to flesh out the stories of the Oligarchs rather than simply slamming them out of existence, and can make them into characters instead of gods.

Yes, in my opinion the oligarchs were a stupid idea, but in my opinion so was making the BIP Trinity, so if we're rolling with one, we may as well roll with the other.

Hmmm I actually like this. We would still need to come up with what The Merovingian was doing during this time.

As for the Cypherites, I'd want to hold of killing Cryptos until the EMU goes live, I'd want that to be the first bit of news that Cypherite operatives encounter.

As for the meantime, I guess they could be patrolling the towers, or re-try to get into New Zion like they tried to do back in Chapter 8.

Developing anti-overrides as well? Perhaps they finish and that's why Cryptos is no longer of any use to them.

Hmm that'll work. However they'll have to do it in their own construct since MegaCity has become off limits.

(Hey, if we can't access the Matrix IRL, then IC we shouldn't access it.)

I actually figure we should make it as seamless as possible. The shutdown was all OOC, if it starts back up, it should be as if nothing happened, in my opinion.

(03-02-2010, 10:11 AM)Neoteny Wrote: [ -> ]I have to say I never really liked the idea of the BIP going into the source, activating magical golden hallways, and causing a restart. It's a cheap villain of the week ending, which we all know and hate.

Furthermore, as I said before, what's the motivation for it happening? Why does the BIP want to do this? It's hard to think up a rationale for a woman who's been dead for so long to go ahead and be dead again. The only real thought I have there is if she's seeking Neo's programming, but that almost concretely certifies that Neo is dead and that the program of the One is in the source, and I'm not sure I can commit to that idea - having the lingering doubt that Neo's body is out there and that something's going on with it is one of the few things keeping EPN alive.

Anyway, if we have the oligarchs and we're going to axe them off, let's at least do it in an intriguing manner, not in a gratuitous explosion that came from nowhere. Remember the EPN excursion to the No-Fly zone? Why not have the Machines use their operatives to tinker with the programming of some sentinels (so as to override any blocks) and send in an attack force or even just a blockade? Better yet, why not have humans go along with them? Make us see the more involved parts of the Oligarchs. Possibly have them gain control of the BIP and gain the bodies they seek - see where they go from there.

Such a war in the Real between the Machines and the Oligarchs presents further opportunity for Zion and EPN to build up, and following it, there could be a huge clash where Zion and EPN might have a chance against the Machines.

Meanwhile, the Architect gets hard to work on creating code to block the Oligarchs from entering the Matrix/having power within the Matrix. Once out of the Matrix/without power, they've lost their goal and may possibly retreat to their own corners to blow off steam. This way we can also have time to flesh out the stories of the Oligarchs rather than simply slamming them out of existence, and can make them into characters instead of gods.

Yes, in my opinion the oligarchs were a stupid idea, but in my opinion so was making the BIP Trinity, so if we're rolling with one, we may as well roll with the other.

I would hardly call the culmination of a 5 chapter long storyline that was intended to last well over a year as "a cheap villain of the week ending".

Besides, is it so hard to believe Trinity wanted peace between Zion and The Machines? The love of her life seemed to realise it in the end, why not her? That's the ultimate goal of entering the source afterall, to have humanity help (she, and a human being were KEY to finally doing it (hence why the Machines we never able to do before)) eliminate the Oligarch control over the Machines. They're in debt/thankful and thus end the war/create a new Matrix. That was the intended ending to all this and one I think should be played out at least in some shape/form because it just makes the most sense.

Also people seem to be underestimating the gravity of the Oligarch control routines. It's not something that can be poofed away with time. The Architect and Crytos aren't going to be able to just code some magic Oligarch firewall setting. Their control extends all the way back to the origins of their civilisation. Hence why this all ended up in the Source. It's the only to get rid of them once and for all.

What are the origins of the Wireframed Band of Degenerates?

I know they're old humans, but did Rare ever explain anywhere what the deal with them is? I mean, even if we purged them out of the system, we'd have to assume that they still have a home base somewhere where the machines can't go... How many are there? Are they all in android bodies? Are they so old as to be beyond reproduction of any sort? Do they live in their own simulated world since they're in android bodies?

A lot of these are sillyish questions, but there are a lot of things to flesh out of we're going to carry this story on. A lot of things that from Rare's outline, were still in his head.